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heroes and monsters
Over on Tumblr, This discussion of Natasha and what it means to be a superhero got me thinking tangentially about Natasha and her relationship to the organizations and people she feels a duty towards.
For me, it leads back to a story I've been trying to write for awhile now, which is that there's a difference between being a superhero and identifying as one. Those six people who fought in New York are the Avengers now in the public's eye and in ours, but who among them actually thinks of themselves that way, as heroes or as a team? Tony, I think, is the only one: planning apartments for everyone, challenging Bruce, dragging everyone to schwarma. But he is also at the end of a three-movie heroic arc that got him there. He chose to be Iron Man, chose again to be a hero instead of letting his ego rule, and chose to fight with (and name) Earth's Mightiest Heroes.
Thor is next closest, but his whole life has been leading him to serve as a protector of his people. He fell in love with Midgard and brought us under his aegis, but it's not a radical shift for him, now that he's mostly done being an immature brat. He's still learning, and struggling with his loyalties to Asgard and his family versus his chosen people on Earth, but he's already pretty much there.
Steve is in an interesting grey area. He has experience being a hero and an icon, but he never thought of himself that way. He was a soldier, a kid from Brooklyn, not Captain America. Not to himself. I think he mostly got there over the course of the movie - that even without the people and world and the fight that he knew, he could still do the right thing and be useful. He's also the quickest to take the next step, and leave SHIELD and all his chain-of-command habits behind. He might never think of himself as a hero, but he's going to live it.
Natasha, like Bruce, had an arc in the movie that made her choice to go to New York significant because she was previously acting on a different motivation. The essay I linked at the beginning says that she does it for Clint, but Natasha doesn’t go to New York for Clint. She gets Bruce, comes to the Helicarrier, faces down Loki, and gets back on her feet after almost dying in order to help him, but then things change. She rescued Clint, but got slapped in the face with the fact that her debt is not just to him - it’s to all those people she killed, and to herself. She’s got red in her ledger that she didn’t see before.
Although Natasha can and does work alone, she's not a lone wolf character like Clint. She was raised to work for the Red Room, to have a fierce devotion and loyalty to their cause, and to work with others in service to that cause. She became visibly and vocally loyal to Clint, and obviously did something in between joining SHIELD and IM2 to have Nick Fury trust her that much. She is by far the best team player in The Avengers, keeping her ego under control and letting her personal motivations drive her rather than control her in order to get shit done. But until New York, she was always serving others' goals - ones she supported, but no one with Natasha's past could agree perfectly and all the time with Nick Fury. Loki actually says it well: "You lie and kill in the service of liars and killers. You pretend to be separate, to have your own code, something that makes up for the horrors." Natasha's story in the comics is about liberation and redemption, and she's on the cusp of that in the MCU - she didn't choose the Red Room, she didn't choose SHIELD, but she chose the Avengers for herself. She still thinks of herself as a spy at the end of Avengers, but she can be both.
Bruce, like Natasha, doesn't mean to be a hero. He just wants to keep himself from hurting people, and do what he can to make up for the past. Tony prods him into thinking about the Hulk as a potential gift instead of a curse, and he finally chooses to fight because he can do more good than harm. However, he's got a long way to go before he'll think of himself as anything other than a monster, and it's going to hinge on his ability to control the Hulk, and his acceptance of the Other Guy.
Clint has the farthest to go, in my opinion. He goes to New York to back up Natasha, but he also wants revenge on Loki. It's clear that Clint is a good person at heart, but if they're even remotely sticking with his canon backstory, he was an orphan and a carnie and an soldier/thief/assassin/vigilante, then he was brainwashed into betraying the little that he had. He's been abused, used, manipulated, and isolated, and he doesn't have Natasha's psychological insight to help him cope with that. He has a sense of morality and is clearly willing to disregard SHIELD's commands when he feels it's important - to save Natasha, to fight in New York - but I don't think he has the necessary sense of self-worth to realize that he can be more than that. Not yet.
Aaaaand, now it's 4 AM, so I have to sleep, but please come talk about these ridiculous people with me.
For me, it leads back to a story I've been trying to write for awhile now, which is that there's a difference between being a superhero and identifying as one. Those six people who fought in New York are the Avengers now in the public's eye and in ours, but who among them actually thinks of themselves that way, as heroes or as a team? Tony, I think, is the only one: planning apartments for everyone, challenging Bruce, dragging everyone to schwarma. But he is also at the end of a three-movie heroic arc that got him there. He chose to be Iron Man, chose again to be a hero instead of letting his ego rule, and chose to fight with (and name) Earth's Mightiest Heroes.
Thor is next closest, but his whole life has been leading him to serve as a protector of his people. He fell in love with Midgard and brought us under his aegis, but it's not a radical shift for him, now that he's mostly done being an immature brat. He's still learning, and struggling with his loyalties to Asgard and his family versus his chosen people on Earth, but he's already pretty much there.
Steve is in an interesting grey area. He has experience being a hero and an icon, but he never thought of himself that way. He was a soldier, a kid from Brooklyn, not Captain America. Not to himself. I think he mostly got there over the course of the movie - that even without the people and world and the fight that he knew, he could still do the right thing and be useful. He's also the quickest to take the next step, and leave SHIELD and all his chain-of-command habits behind. He might never think of himself as a hero, but he's going to live it.
Natasha, like Bruce, had an arc in the movie that made her choice to go to New York significant because she was previously acting on a different motivation. The essay I linked at the beginning says that she does it for Clint, but Natasha doesn’t go to New York for Clint. She gets Bruce, comes to the Helicarrier, faces down Loki, and gets back on her feet after almost dying in order to help him, but then things change. She rescued Clint, but got slapped in the face with the fact that her debt is not just to him - it’s to all those people she killed, and to herself. She’s got red in her ledger that she didn’t see before.
Although Natasha can and does work alone, she's not a lone wolf character like Clint. She was raised to work for the Red Room, to have a fierce devotion and loyalty to their cause, and to work with others in service to that cause. She became visibly and vocally loyal to Clint, and obviously did something in between joining SHIELD and IM2 to have Nick Fury trust her that much. She is by far the best team player in The Avengers, keeping her ego under control and letting her personal motivations drive her rather than control her in order to get shit done. But until New York, she was always serving others' goals - ones she supported, but no one with Natasha's past could agree perfectly and all the time with Nick Fury. Loki actually says it well: "You lie and kill in the service of liars and killers. You pretend to be separate, to have your own code, something that makes up for the horrors." Natasha's story in the comics is about liberation and redemption, and she's on the cusp of that in the MCU - she didn't choose the Red Room, she didn't choose SHIELD, but she chose the Avengers for herself. She still thinks of herself as a spy at the end of Avengers, but she can be both.
Bruce, like Natasha, doesn't mean to be a hero. He just wants to keep himself from hurting people, and do what he can to make up for the past. Tony prods him into thinking about the Hulk as a potential gift instead of a curse, and he finally chooses to fight because he can do more good than harm. However, he's got a long way to go before he'll think of himself as anything other than a monster, and it's going to hinge on his ability to control the Hulk, and his acceptance of the Other Guy.
Clint has the farthest to go, in my opinion. He goes to New York to back up Natasha, but he also wants revenge on Loki. It's clear that Clint is a good person at heart, but if they're even remotely sticking with his canon backstory, he was an orphan and a carnie and an soldier/thief/assassin/vigilante, then he was brainwashed into betraying the little that he had. He's been abused, used, manipulated, and isolated, and he doesn't have Natasha's psychological insight to help him cope with that. He has a sense of morality and is clearly willing to disregard SHIELD's commands when he feels it's important - to save Natasha, to fight in New York - but I don't think he has the necessary sense of self-worth to realize that he can be more than that. Not yet.
Aaaaand, now it's 4 AM, so I have to sleep, but please come talk about these ridiculous people with me.